Curse

OblivionDanny · Mar 08, 2010, 05:12 PM // 17:12

To some people, HA is already dead, to other's it is dying. Either way, the proof is in front of everyone simply by looking at observe mode and seeing that the last HoH win was 1-2 hours ago, or that the majority of HoH matches are 1v1.
Teams resign after winning HoH just so they don't need to wait because they want to play the game and have fun and not wait in halls for hours.

Whether you play PvE or even dislike HA, you'd agree that its time something was done to HA to solve these problems.

A thread was made here --> http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/h...t10428597.html <-- which people gave some informative feedback, on what needs to be done to help HA improve and become more popular again. Feel free to add your contributions to that page.

Most of the ideas and suggestions on this page came from that thread, thus I would like to thank everyone there for the help.

We do not want people to come here and tell everyone HA is dead and it should be dead. If you have no interest in making HA better for everyone and think it should stay dead keep your comments to yourself please, we don't want to hear it.

We want to hear your constructive feedback on the suggestions below. Do not flame the suggestions.

Thank you!

Ill do my best to keep this updated with everyones suggestions or to add onto the current suggestions

Suggestion 1

Reintroduce 6v6
Make HoH 1v1v1v1 (4 teams yes)

People are worried about the 6v6 format again, because of the last time, but since then, lots of things have changed and those same problems can NOT possibly exist anymore.
Alot of people agreed that forming teams takes too long and not only does 6 man teams help that problem it also means a possibility of more teams in HA. (THATS WHAT WE WANT!)
So, why 4 teams in HoH? Well many reasons actually. If 6v6 is reintroduced, 4 teams would not only be interesting and fun but also because there will be less DD's compared to 8 man teams, 4 teams would make up for that problem also.
On top of this, alot of teams have dual interupts this can effectively stop 2 teams completely from capping an altar meaning in the current condition of HoH 1 team can permanently hold an altar even if your ghostly hero is dead. 4 teams would therefore make this alot more difficult to do. 4 teams would be pointless in the current 8 man team condition as there arent enough teams to provide even 1v1v1 alot of the time.
Also, currently, when a 1v1v1 match is taking place, if theres 2 teams whom are allies, and one of them is losing, they "usually" gank the other team to help their allies. With 4 teams that would be harder to do, they would not be able to gank 2 teams effectively with only 6 men teams and 4 teams in HoH.

Suggestion 2

Keep 8v8 Format
Reintroduce Heroes

Again as above, with Heroes teams can be made MUCH MUCH quicker, which means more gameplay time! Yay.
However, alot of people dislike heroes for many different reasons which do not need to be posted here.

Suggestion 3

Remove/Revamp Heroes Title
Double fame for rank 9 and under

Alot of people who want to HA under rank 9, complain about the amount of "elitism" in HA (Again we do NOT want this discussion here) and therefore suggestion 2 things, either removing the Hero title so that rank discrimination can't take place or revamp the title so that it is easier to achieve higher ranks.
Another suggestion was to simply allow people under rank 9 double fame all the time.
Alot of people say this is the most important reason as to why people stop HAing(rank discrimination).

Suggestion 4

Removing Objectives
Removing New Maps
Reintroduce Old Maps

Some of the more experienced HA'ers hate the new Objectives such as relic runs and cap points and would like to see the old HA maps reintroduced and remove the newer maps, they believe this is what will make people come back to HA.
Maybe bring back kill count.

Suggestion 5

When you lose a match, you dont go back to Zaishen.

Some people liked the idea of this, as you wouldnt get completely kicked out of HA and start from scratch, instead you go back to the next available map with people waiting.
With this system each map would need to be worth a certain amount of fame which is gained when a team wins, removing consecutive wins completely.
When you lose in HoH the losing teams would be kicked out completely.

Suggestion 6

Something completely different
Orangised 12v12 teams?

Some like the idea of a completely different format, maybe not a good idea to be testing things right now with HA though? This would also require alot more resources from the GW1 Team.

Suggestion 7

Keep The Same Formats
Random teams, like RA.

Suggested by someone, personally, I don't like the idea of random HA teams but ill keep adding all your suggestions here.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is all the suggestions to help improve the amount of people/teams in HA.

However, there is also some general changes which alot of people would like to see take place as well, which is listed below.

General Suggestion Changes

Favour

Alot of people have said the biggest reason for doing HA in the first place was so that they could gain favour and go to elite PvE places. Now this has been removed the people who played HA for that reason no longer play HA. However, it would be nice to reintroduce favour and allow it to benefit PvErs in a way that would make them want to at least come and try and win HA.
If anyone has any ideas on what favour should grant post ideas here!

Incentives

People said they don't play HA because there is no incentive to play or even try to win HA. For that reason, maybe its time the HoH chest needs updating with some new items.
People also suggested that increasing the faction gain per win, or removing faction gain altogether and each consecutive win you would recieve zkeys instead would maybe make them want to try HA again.

HoH

Make each side equal, when there is a 1v1 match in HoH its unfair for whoever is red team, it would be quite easy to make the blue team in the position of the yellow team in cases like this.

New Maps/Objectives

It would be awesome to see new or old maps in HA again, maybe with different objectives too. Like on burial mound for example, the Obelisk could really do with some kind of update.

Nerf Skills teams rely on

It would be interesting to see certain skills nerfed, the ones in question being, Make Haste, Song of Concentration and possibly PD and Channeling also Ward Against Foes. Mainly because these are used in 99% of teams and are being relied on way too much. It would be interesting to see other options.

Zaishen

They need some love and attention, skill updates on Zaishen please, also a possbility to add Rits/Sin/Para/Derv to the mix.

Allow Death Penalty in HoH

At least in 1v1 matches.

Blue team "holding benefits"

The blue team should recieve holding benefits, whether it be a shorter path OR ghostly already capped (not both)
Moral Boost for the holding team after every 1/2 minutes of holding.
Introduce rezz orbs in HoH?
Base protection: Anyone who goes beyond the stairs (To block ghostly) gets an insta-kill effect similar to AB. This should apply to all teams.

Reduce restart waiting times in HoH

Explaination not needed.

If anyone has any further suggestions feel free to post them here so I can add them to the list.

Thank you for your time.

Fluffy Kittens · Mar 08, 2010, 05:28 PM // 17:28

6v6 is probably the best idea to bring people back to HA. Combine it with some new maps and objectives (maybe killcount again) and add 1v1v1v1 HoH and HA might be again filled with many teams and fun to play.
HA as it is now it's just boring me and many people I know who play it around 4 years already are saying that if something doesn't change soon they probably quit GW for good, because for HA oriented players like me.. it just got too boring.

kedde · Mar 08, 2010, 06:04 PM // 18:04

6v6 was RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing boring.
You had objectives requiring several locked profession choices and several locked skills if you didn't want to be at a disadvantage on those maps.
At the same time there'll still be x amount of gimmicks or overload builds that you just won't possibly be able to prepare adequately for making it a complete game of chance

hitsuji182 · Mar 08, 2010, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Oh, hi tO fellas. :P I appreciate your impact to make Heroes Ascent better and everything you said about this mode is true - HA is dead atm, which is sad, because it's really enjoyable and gives a lot of fun. But lack of players makes this format boring and it's easy to see low activity - 1vs1 in HoH so often in evenings, large skips and even my guild which is HA oriented play much less than before.

Most of your suggestions sound good, but some of them shouldn't exist/back. Heroes are the main issue in my opinion and ANet did good that they removed instant spell rupters (via Tease Gwen/Norgu).

* Remove/Revamp Heroes Title
* Double fame for rank 9 and under

Ymm, no, just no. Hero title is fine. Everyone can achive r9, but skill decides when this will happen. Pr0s can score 300 fame/day, when mediocre players score 30 fame/day. Also, im very close to r9 and i would feel bad, if i knew i lose that double fame bonus after achive my tiger. I would probably stop playing. So, if they gonna double fame, they should do this in all stages from r0 to r15. Furthermore, i hate pps who complain about elitism in HA. ~~ Highranked players could play from release and it's normal that they looking for similar level. Personally i started playing HA in summer 2009 and i was unranked scrub like many others who have never tried HA before. I took my bunch of PvE friends, made guild and started playing. It took us some months, but now we are goodranked guild, in good HA ally. Sometimes we can fail, sometimes we can hold halls, but the point is that we play and don't complain.

Defnitelly to refresh HA, we need new new (even old) maps and some new objectives. It's hard to say what should be added, i have to think about it.

* When you lose a match, you dont go back to Zaishen.

I like this idea. Beating zaishens every single start is senseless.

If we are talking about 6vs6 in HA. Hmm, it would be fine, because we would play often, but in the other hand it would be look like kedde said. But i would give it a try.

HoH also should be reworked. There are so easy possiblilites to gank other team and don't let them win, even if they deserve it...

OblivionDanny · Mar 08, 2010, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedde

6v6 was RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing boring.

That was happening way before 6v6 though...

Killed u man · Mar 08, 2010, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by OblivionDanny

Suggestion 1

Reintroduce 6v6
Make HoH 1v1v1v1 (4 teams yes)

People are worried about the 6v6 format again, because of the last time, but since then, lots of things have changed and those same problems can NOT possibly exist anymore.
Alot of people agreed that forming teams takes too long and not only does 6 man teams help that problem it also means a possibility of more teams in HA. (THATS WHAT WE WANT!)
So, why 4 teams in HoH? Well many reasons actually. If 6v6 is reintroduced, 4 teams would not only be interesting and fun but also because there will be less DD's compared to 8 man teams, 4 teams would make up for that problem also.
On top of this, alot of teams have dual interupts this can effectively stop 2 teams completely from capping an altar meaning in the current condition of HoH 1 team can permanently hold an altar even if your ghostly hero is dead. 4 teams would therefore make this alot more difficult to do. 4 teams would be pointless in the current 8 man team condition as there arent enough teams to provide even 1v1v1 alot of the time.
Also, currently, when a 1v1v1 match is taking place, if theres 2 teams whom are allies, and one of them is losing, they "usually" gank the other team to help their allies. With 4 teams that would be harder to do, they would not be able to gank 2 teams effectively with only 6 men teams and 4 teams in HoH.

Reverting to 6v6 would essentially increase the amount of teams by 25%. (1/4 less people, so 1/4 more teams) Making HoH 4-way would then again require an increase of 33% in teams. (Unless you want even more NoP's)

Other than that, originally HoH was 5 way as I recall. (7 in beta? :s) This worked fine, HA was at it's prime and noone complained. Ganks are a result of a bad mentality amongst people, aswell as bad map design which allows for this to happen so easily. Remove Cap Points and Relic Run, and you still have a fairly good chance of winning despite getting ganked. (Because the nature of KoTH is to hold 2v1) And you have some control over who caps the center. (Let the ganking team cap, so the non-ganking team will be forced to help you kill the gankers)

Reverting to 6v6 would do no good, but it's definatly not as bad as some people, including myself sometimes, make it out to have been. Though this should only be a last resort option.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OblivionDanny

Suggestion 2

Keep 8v8 Format
Reintroduce Heroes

Again as above, with Heroes teams can be made MUCH MUCH quicker, which means more gameplay time! Yay.
However, alot of people dislike heroes for many different reasons which do not need to be posted here.

Nope, Heroes get abused. People have henchies now, what's the problem? What you're really saying is: "Give people auto-pilot heroes which farm the format for them". You're better of having NO HA, as opposed to a second PvE. No good came out of all the people who farmed HA with hway. They're still as bad as the day they joined, and they refuse to play any other builds but hexway and or SWway nowadays. Heroway promotes the PvE mentality way to much, which is to sit back, bash some buttons and let other people do the work for you. (In this case, Heroes)

As a final arguement, it's Player vs Player. If you EVER concider bringing AI into a PvP game, you should really ask yourself: "Do I understand how PvP works?", because if you really believe this is a viable option, you don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OblivionDanny

Suggestion 3

Remove/Revamp Heroes Title
Double fame for rank 9 and under

Alot of people who want to HA under rank 9, complain about the amount of "elitism" in HA (Again we do NOT want this discussion here) and therefore suggestion 2 things, either removing the Hero title so that rank discrimination can't take place or revamp the title so that it is easier to achieve higher ranks.
Another suggestion was to simply allow people under rank 9 double fame all the time.
Alot of people say this is the most important reason as to why people stop HAing(rank discrimination).

You're once again missing the ball here. People don't cry about rank discrimination (Well they do), but they cry about the fact that they don't find people who want to farm the format for them.

Last time I checked, nothing holds you back from selecting 7 other people (or 5 + 2 henchies) and going in, atleast attempting to HA. No, the reason why all these PvE'ers cry about rank discrimination is because they're too lazy to do it themselves.

They come to HA with the PvE mentality: "And now I'm going to spend the next xx days/weeks farming my tiger/HoM title", whereas in the old days (When rank discrimination wasn't cried upon 24/7) people came to HA with the mentality of :"I want to beat other people, become good at the game and eventually get rank XX".

This is people's mentality, not the format itself. If you want to change this, change the way PvE works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OblivionDanny

Suggestion 4

Removing Objectives
Removing New Maps
Reintroduce Old Maps

Some of the more experienced HA'ers hate the new Objectives such as relic runs and cap points and would like to see the old HA maps reintroduced and remove the newer maps, they believe this is what will make people come back to HA.

The only viable thing for Anet to do. HA worked when it was old-school holding, numbers speak for themselves. (8-15 districts as opposed to 2) And it's not even the fact that Relic Run and Cap Points aren't fun, (Which they definatly aren't) it's the fact that the factor luck plays, is way to big. Relic Run, I've explained before: Capping last is 99% luck, standing still for 7 minutes isn't fun, whatsoever. Cap Points is pointless. Half the time, you can't split for someone's base because it's pointless. The 1 minute rezz-timer prevents you from doing anything of value. (It takes 44 seconds to cap a base with 1 person, and you rezz every minute)

Everything about Relic Run and Cap Points is designed bad, going from the map design to the rez timers and objectives. They shouldv'e pooped out HA the day they got introduced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OblivionDanny

Suggestion 5

When you lose a match, you dont go back to Zaishen.

Some people liked the idea of this, as you wouldnt get completely kicked out of HA and start from scratch, instead you go back to the next available map with people waiting.
With this system each map would need to be worth a certain amount of fame which is gained when a team wins, removing consecutive wins completely.

This late in game, I don't see the need for such a set-up, though I won't mind have a "ladder system". HA plays exactly like now, but only whenever you loose, you don't go back to HA, but rather to a previous map, and your fame counter gets turned back by 1 aswell. (If you got 8 fame the last win, you'll get 6 this one)

In HoH, you go straight back to HA to prevent hyper-holding. I could see this system work, but I don't see how this would promote HA. It's fine the way it is now. Again, people leaving after 1 run isn't a format error, it's the PvE mentality that once again thrives in PvP when it shouldn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OblivionDanny

Suggestion 6

Something completely different
Orangised 12v12 teams?

Some like the idea of a completely different format, maybe not a good idea to be testing things right now with HA though? This would also require alot more resources from the GW1 Team.

Spikes much? Not to mention set-up time. This definatly isn't something for HA, atleast not as inactive as it is right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OblivionDanny

General Suggestion Changes

Favour

Alot of people have said the biggest reason for doing HA in the first place was so that they could gain favour and go to elite PvE places. Now this has been removed the people who played HA for that reason no longer play HA. However, it would be nice to reintroduce favour and allow it to benefit PvErs in a way that would make them want to at least come and try and win HA.
If anyone has any ideas on what favour should grant post ideas here!

Anet wanted a PvE and PvP split, completely. This had to be done, but it was indeed for the worse for both PvE and PvP. This severely cut down on the influx of PvE'ers in HA, and it affected UW/FoW farming in a great way. (A minor reason why ecto's went down so much is the permanent availability of UW/FoW)

Re-introducing this would contradict Anet's current business model (Which is to cater PvE), but it would be overal good for the game.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by OblivionDanny

HoH

Quote:

Originally Posted by OblivionDanny

Make each side equal, when there is a 1v1 match in HoH its unfair for whoever is red team, it would be quite easy to make the blue team in the position of the yellow team in cases like this.

New Maps/Objectives

It would be awesome to see new or old maps in HA again, maybe with different objectives too. Like on burial mound for example, the Obelisk could really do with some kind of update.

Nerf Skills teams rely on

1) This has always been like this, and is true. Though this is a minor thing, as you're already assuming HA is inactive, and there won't be enough teams playing.

2) As said before, old maps > new maps any day.

3) Obviously. And they're still way to slow. Just a week ago, they replaced R/A with A/W's. Given, A/W way is alot easier to kill, but on the counter side, they pump ALOT MORE damage than sway ever did. (Esp with hexes)

Agar · Mar 08, 2010, 08:13 PM // 20:13

If the groups become random it might come back. Combine that with some of the ideas above and we have a winner. Other than that i cant see how it can be revived. GvG should be the only format with arranged teams IMO.

OblivionDanny · Mar 08, 2010, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Reverting to 6v6 would essentially increase the amount of teams by 25%. (1/4 less people, so 1/4 more teams) Making HoH 4-way would then again require an increase of 33% in teams. (Unless you want even more NoP's)

Its impossible to accurately say how much it would increase or decrease by, since teams would be easier to form(which is a reason some people dont play because of the amount of time it takes to form a group) therefore, hoping more people would play as its also easier to access. it could potentially increase teams by 50% or even 100%... however it could even decrease, we just can not be 100% sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Other than that, originally HoH was 5 way as I recall. (7 in beta? :s) This worked fine, HA was at it's prime and noone complained.

Im not sure odd numbered teams would be implemented at this stage, but I personally like the option of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Nope, Heroes get abused. People have henchies now, what's the problem? What you're really saying is: "Give people auto-pilot heroes which farm the format for them". You're better of having NO HA, as opposed to a second PvE. No good came out of all the people who farmed HA with hway. They're still as bad as the day they joined, and they refuse to play any other builds but hexway and or SWway nowadays. Heroway promotes the PvE mentality way to much, which is to sit back, bash some buttons and let other people do the work for you. (In this case, Heroes)

As a final arguement, it's Player vs Player. If you EVER concider bringing AI into a PvP game, you should really ask yourself: "Do I understand how PvP works?", because if you really believe this is a viable option, you don't

I do agree with you 100% if you look at it from that point of view, however, from how i see it, thats not the problem, the problem purely is getting more teams into HA which adding heroes do allow. They were really never that hard to beat in the first place, and the henchmen in HA do get used, so there is no problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

The only viable thing for Anet to do. HA worked when it was old-school holding, numbers speak for themselves. (8-15 districts as opposed to 2) And it's not even the fact that Relic Run and Cap Points aren't fun, (Which they definatly aren't) it's the fact that the factor luck plays, is way to big. Relic Run, I've explained before: Capping last is 99% luck, standing still for 7 minutes isn't fun, whatsoever.

Numbers speak for themself your right, however you also need to take into the factor how old the game is too, i'm pretty sure if relic run/cap points were introduced at the beginning, no one would complain about them, its just personally opinion on what you think of the objectives, most of the people who played back then loved KOTH because of how easily it could be abused to win(mostly with the introduction of faction skills).

Also, as far as relics go, you choose to stand there for 7 minutes doing nothing, you could easily do something about it. Why? Because everyones so scared of ganks... again a PvE mentality problem?

Apok Omen · Mar 08, 2010, 08:47 PM // 20:47

About the Zaishen: You do realize they are there to stop overly annoying defensive teams from playing cat-and-mouse with an opposing team that wants to advance right? They just replaced the Rift Wardens from Tombs.

About 6v6: Once again, for the billionth time, no one enjoyed 6v6. They did, however, enjoy the double fame/faction that they got when it was first introduced.

About old-school maps: I agree on this and this only. Bundle running and Cap points belong in GvG and AB ONLY. HA is the playground for holding. That is all.

And about the number of teams: Look in every other format in this game. Do you really see alot of players in them? There is nothing wrong about HA that stops people from forming teams; it's the overall game. It's dead. It's kaput. It has maggots crawling on it, and you are using the pesticide on the leg of the body. I don't blame you for trying (even I want every idea posted on these forums to work just to see more life) but don't blame HA for what happened to the playerbase.

FoxBat · Mar 08, 2010, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Given the insanely low GvG member requirements now, just close HA and give GvG a pug outpost IMO. But make an HoH-based GvG map.

Also make RA 6v6 or 8v8, if nothing else to better evenly distribute healers. Why did they ever drop to 4v4 in the first place.

OblivionDanny · Mar 08, 2010, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

About the Zaishen: You do realize they are there to stop overly annoying defensive teams from playing cat-and-mouse with an opposing team that wants to advance right? They just replaced the Rift Wardens from Tombs.

Think you misunderstood something with this? Zaishen would still be there...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

About 6v6: Once again, for the billionth time, no one enjoyed 6v6. They did, however, enjoy the double fame/faction that they got when it was first introduced.

I personally enjoyed 6v6 alot more then 8v8, but then when 8v8 was reintroduced I equally enjoyed that then too, I would like to see 6v6 again though. IMO most people hate it because of all the "holding" builds that could be created back then, mostly fault of paragons, which again no longer exist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

And about the number of teams: Look in every other format in this game. Do you really see alot of players in them? There is nothing wrong about HA that stops people from forming teams; it's the overall game. It's dead. It's kaput. It has maggots crawling on it, and you are using the pesticide on the leg of the body. I don't blame you for trying (even I want every idea posted on these forums to work just to see more life) but don't blame HA for what happened to the playerbase.

It clearly says in the first post, dont post about something dying or being dead, im sure other things in the game suffer from the same problem, maybe they don't, I dont mind about other parts of the game though, I mind about HA which is what this is here for, no one is blaming HA for anything. Were merely looking at improving what we have in hope at least.

kedde · Mar 08, 2010, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by OblivionDanny

That was happening way before 6v6 though...

Which only reinforces the point when that update was supposed to make it fun and interesting again.

X Ghoul · Mar 09, 2010, 12:00 AM // 00:00

To sum up what I think. HA is NOT supposed to cater to the pve mentality (which most of these suggestions are). Of course people want to farm fame which is basically 90% of the people who complain about rank discrimination. Only viable things that I would accept include: bringing back favor to our control, remove failure maps of sitting still for 7mins ie: relics + cap pts -(to some degree). A suggestion that I would include for all the qq farmers would be double fame from r0-3 THATS IT no MORE no LESS. and bring back the old school maps

superraptors · Mar 09, 2010, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Ghoul

To sum up what I think. HA is NOT supposed to cater to the pve mentality (which most of these suggestions are). Of course people want to farm fame which is basically 90% of the people who complain about rank discrimination. Only viable things that I would accept include: bringing back favor to our control, remove failure maps of sitting still for 7mins ie: relics + cap pts -(to some degree). A suggestion that I would include for all the qq farmers would be double fame from r0-3 THATS IT no MORE no LESS. and bring back the old school maps

Yea too bad 95% of gw population is pve, if u want to see pvers make the transition into pvp, then you need to cater for them because at HA current state it is impossible.

Suggestion 1: Re introduce 6v6, but not 1v1v1v1. It use to be 5 way with the holding team in centre while two sides teams fought until it was 1v1v1. Impossible to implement because the sides teams wouldnt have enough time to get to centre and take out the holding team now.

There is a guaranteed 25% of increase in teams considering the remaining people still play, not including the probable increase of pvers and maybe other pvpers coming back. Which i estimate will be at least a 50% increase if not more if HA is 6v6. What we want is matches not skips and restarts. This will solve it primarily.

Solution 2: No heroes shouldnt be carrying teams in a pvp arena.

Solution 3: Too late to implement 5 years into the game, people who have got high ranks would disapprove of this. People like chamalee and starcraft will kill themselves, although i dont care if it is done or not as long as it becomes more active.

Solution 4: Yes. Remove relics in HoH as a start, remove antec chamber replace with Sacred so people are still forced to spec for relic maps as relic has always been a core to HA. Then drop fetid or burial mounds from rotation.
So we got: Uw, Fetid, Unholy temples, forgotten shrines, dark chambers, courtyard, sacred temples.

Solution 5: zaishen takes 20-40 seconds to kill so no. If they change 2 6v6 then remove the elemental henchie

Solution 6: No too big, means hoh population will decrease by like 50%

General Solutions:
Yes re-introduce favour, who gives a shit if pvers quit now, its not like a-net continue to make revenue anyways from pvers now 5 years in.

Incentives i dont care.

Hope anet actually listens to these changes and make it more interesting for the year or so until gw2 comes out. It is not hard for them to change the code given they have already done it before, it will only take the coding guy probably a day at max to copy/paste/delete code for the old maps and 6v6.

Missing HB · Mar 09, 2010, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Yes , i agree that 6v6 format would be better since it could make more teams at some hours , where there are actually only 2-3 teams playing and resulting in 1v1 halls after having some restarts , to then also have restarts if you win hall.

I agree also about making blue team in yellow side on 1v1 , especially for relics since , most of time , holding team is just going to stuck red relic spawn , whereas red team just can't do it .

Fluffy Kittens · Mar 09, 2010, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by OblivionDanny

[*]Nerf Skills teams rely on[/LIST]It would be interesting to see certain skills nerfed, the ones in question being, Make Haste and possibly PD and Channeling. Mainly because these are used in 99% of teams and are being relied on way too much. It would be interesting to see other options.

Nerfing Make Haste, Song of Concetration and PD would also make HA more fun since there will be a lot more different builds out there not just 2 "meta" builds like now. You could easier counter people on relics and have more action then since Make Haste is nerfed, people would probably use skills like Flame Djinns' Haste and other "forgotten" skills again.
Also nerf PD because teams on KOTH get carried by one PD mesmer who just doesn't let anyone cap (it's not hard to interrupt both Song of Concetration and Ghostly Hero)

In my opinion HA with those skills nerfed would be much more fun and enjoyable to play.

axe · Mar 09, 2010, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

What we want is matches not skips and restarts. This will solve it primarily.

Solution 2: No heroes shouldnt be carrying teams in a pvp arena.

Solution 5: zaishen takes 20-40 seconds to kill so no. If they change 2 6v6 then remove the elemental henchie

Heroes basically allowed a team of 6 to play in an 8v8, the hench options are limited, but still doable. I really didnt mind heroes so much, but if they are allowed back in ADDITION to some of these bots in HA, it could be a problem. So at this point I have to agree, even though Heroes made the format more active, it was at a cost.

Solution 5 I think people are misunderstanding. The suggestion is not to avoid the Zaishen, but to put you directly back into a match. If you do a full run up to HoH and lose, you go back a map to the next available, Ante, Courtyard, etc.. this gives the teams working on a full run, a match to play on a late match, rather than a skip, it gives the team that just lost a direct match vs equal competition (a team that made it that far) then a team will lose that match, 1 of those teams goes back a map, one goes forward. It SHOULD reduce the number of skips later in the rotation, it will also make the lower level maps "easier" in that the better teams are fighting in the higher level maps. Basically the ability of your team will settle you somewhere in the rotation. I realize that fighting the same couple maps could get boring, but its a good way to improve map by map.

Honestly I think Solution 5 could make HA more of a progression for those of all experience levels, you dont get constantly crushed on UW by high ranks that keep losing those 1v1s you will be more likely to face a team of equal skill accross the whole progression.

I dont know if I am explaining this well.

Killed u man · Mar 09, 2010, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

Nerfing Make Haste, Song of Concetration and PD would also make HA more fun since there will be a lot more different builds out there not just 2 "meta" builds like now. You could easier counter people on relics and have more action then since Make Haste is nerfed, people would probably use skills like Flame Djinns' Haste and other "forgotten" skills again.
Also nerf PD because teams on KOTH get carried by one PD mesmer who just doesn't let anyone cap (it's not hard to interrupt both Song of Concetration and Ghostly Hero)

In my opinion HA with those skills nerfed would be much more fun and enjoyable to play.

I don't have a problem with you posting here on these forums, aswell as suggesting ideas, but I can't help think in the back of my head the hypocrisy in your posts.

For starters: Alot more different builds than now? You do realize you ONLY run 1 build all day every day. (Kinda like WoOm, only they run balanced) Part of the shitty HA metas is people abusing them. I think you fail to realize ANY PvE'er can abuse hexway/sway and hold HoH with it. The thing is that people such as WoOm, myself and pretty much most top GvG have a "sense" of honor.

If everyone were to stop running hexway, or atleast the higher ranked people (like yourself), those builds wouldn't be such a problem. The problem is people like you REFUSE to run balance (And this is not your fault, it's Anet fault for allowing you to run those builds in the first place) and rather FARM the FORMAT with SWAY.

Other than that: Nerfding PD? The corner stone of balance KoTH holding? N ty. Clearly you can't counter it with sway, but that's the downside of running sway/hexway. You're only capable of running one song and no aegis. But again, that's the limitations of the build you're running, not the overpoweredness of PD.

Ironicly all the skills you've mentioned will benefit hexway/sway;

Quote:

In my opinion sway/hexway with those skills nerfed would be much more fun and enjoyable to play.

Again, you bring up some valid points: Make Haste should have been nerfed long time ago. (And windborne buffed, aswell as other non paragon options) But I can't help myself from adressing you on the blatant hypocrisy in your posts.

OblivionDanny · Mar 09, 2010, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

For starters: Alot more different builds than now? You do realize you ONLY run 1 build all day every day. (Kinda like WoOm, only they run balanced) Part of the shitty HA metas is people abusing them. I think you fail to realize ANY PvE'er can abuse hexway/sway and hold HoH with it. The thing is that people such as WoOm, myself and pretty much most top GvG have a "sense" of honor.

If everyone were to stop running hexway, or atleast the higher ranked people (like yourself), those builds wouldn't be such a problem. The problem is people like you REFUSE to run balance (And this is not your fault, it's Anet fault for allowing you to run those builds in the first place) and rather FARM the FORMAT with SWAY.

I didn't want to comment on this and it will also drift away from the current topic but this needs to be said...

I'm happy people such as yourself find playing balanced "honourable" because personally I find it boring. Go into HA right now watch observe mode... every balance team plays the EXACT same thing constantly, how boring is it to fight that ALL the time? VERY BORING!

Alot of these so called "higher ranked people" play ONLY 1 build also the majority of the time, that being balanced. Other people play ONLY 1 build too, that being hexway or sway... So i fail to see your point with this?... Its the exact same thing... whether a team plays JUST balanced or JUST plays something else.

I'm sorry but who decided that the game should only allow people to play balance? Sorry? Since when? Just because you might not like other builds or find them dishonourable is your problem no one elses.

Good balanced teams also farm the format, so who cares how you "FARM" the "FORMAT", its the same whether you farm it with balance or sway.

The main difference between both builds is 1 thing and 1 thing only. 95% of people use vent to play balanced where sway percentage is much, much lower. I don't remember buying this game with a note on the box saying "If you want to play this game you MUST have vent to play" I enjoy the game without using vent thus the main reason for playing sway or the such, we don't need vent to communicate, some of us have played that long with each other we depend on each other without needing to use vent.

Maybe the actual problem here is the game compensating for balanced builds, maybe thats why all these problems exist.

Yes before you mention this, there can and there is good and bad sways, just as there is good and bad balanced. Whether you like to admit it or not, both builds require skill in different ways, neither should be considered honourable or dishonourable either way, nobody has the right to suggest that they do either.

Its simply a PvP mentality, and the fact is, it boils down to this -> You just dislike certain builds. Theres nothing wrong with that, but keep your opinions on builds to yourself because no one really cares and has nothing to do with this topic.

Trinity Fire Angel · Mar 10, 2010, 01:05 AM // 01:05

i like the idea of re-introducing favour....

however, i like the fact that now i can go to american districts which is where everyone hangs out these days. it makes gws more sociable. perhaps only in ToA and other UW districts ANet can put the split back in. This is will force people to go back to HA to win favour back instead of grinding titles to get favour. That is what killed HA.

no, gws is not dead... instead of 6-7 districts in HA.. now we get 6-7 districts in Kamadan.

i agree with Borat in one respect... PVE'ers come to HA and expect to "farm" their ranks and find elite teams to take them. you can see how the mentality sticks in PVE with all the "kill ursan" / kill "speed clears" etc etc because it causes elite-ism in PVE and stops people forming teams (or noobs joining elite players to farm for them). like most R3 people, i had to PUG my way to bambi. currently i am following some advice in a previous thread on obtaining R3 glad before returning to GVG or HA as i want to get better at Pvp and not just "farm" rank.

perhaps the currently GW's mentality amongst PVE'ers needs to change. how? i just don;t know right now. zkeys were a great idea as it introduced a form of making money for people who just play pvp. zkeys were at the same time a shit idea becuase it introduced an emote that PVE'ers can farm instead of doing the hard PVP work. just buuy the keys or trade them for ectos. go figure.

tl;dr. re-introduce favour. change pve farming mentality towards pvp titles.